bulldogs, which bulldogs?
today, i was reading on the bee's website and saw this article. it deals with the dilemma that the big local university is having to consider because one of the major gangs in fresno uses their logo. of course, there probably isn't any real solution. some suggested altering the logo, perhaps to "soften" it a little. but, it's not like the gangsters are going to change their name because the bulldog is smiling now or something. and, i doubt they picked up the name because of the menacing bulldog logo. it's more of an affiliation with fresno. [for those that don't know, the bulldogs (gang) are an offshoot of f14. The f was for fresno. the 14 is for n, the 14th letter of the alphabet. n refers to nuestra familia, as well as north (in spanish, too). nuestra familia is a gang that began in california prisons. (but, i think i've seen in other recent articles that the gang is now it's own entity. i don't know.)] i can remember bulldogs being associated with the gang as far back as the late 80's. now, i don't know exactly when it all happened, but i know they've been using the same for quite some time. some of my earliest memories of bulldogs athletics were in the early 80's, with the NIT victory, but i know they had the mascot before then.
the only thing that they could really do would be to change their mascot entirely. but, that wouldn't get rid of the gangsters. and, i doubt the university would be willing to change their mascot due to the cost and "branding" that they've worked hard to establish. yet, one wonders why they wouldn't if they really felt that it was a problem. many universities have changed their mascots completely because they were using terms deemed offensive (st john's redmen is an example, they're now the red storm). not that bulldogs is offensive, but if the university really wanted to distance themselves from the gang, a mascot change could be an easy step. the article mentions other universities, like unlv, who's logos were co-opted by gangs. basically, the response has been, "what can you do?" and really, that's the dilemma. if you change your mascot/logo/name, gangs still might use it. are you going to change every time it happens?
i know that eliminating the gang would be a solution. and, the police are trying to do that. but, eliminating gangs is a very difficult proposition. here's an article originally from the ap that talks about trying to do that very thing in los angeles.
what other solutions might be out there?
What part Sur 13 says he is
What part Sur 13
says he is black you jackass
What part Sir 13 says he is
What part Sir 13
says he is black you jackass
zero tolerance
Gangs will no longer exist?? What have you been smoking because they have been around since this country was founded? I'm no supporter of any gang but as long as the Constitution protects groups like the KKK and Black Panthers, there will always be gangs.
Zero tolerance
Beginning now, there will be a Zero Tolerance for gang members in Fresno. Any and all gang members will be rounded up and imprisoned where they belong. If you even look like a gang banger, you will be questioned. It is estimated that by the end of the year, gangs will no longer exist in Fresno. So, this message goes out to all gang bangers: get out now or pay the price.
Lowlife!
Hey fool, learn how to talk. You sound like a dumb idiot. Are you black?
Fresno gang bangers
Congratulations to M.A.G.E.C., and the Fresno Police and Sheriff's Department for helping to rid our streets of gang bangers. Anybody who is a gang banger or a wannabe gang banger is a lowlife scumbag and must be taken off our streets immediately. If it were up to me, I'd line 'em all up against a wall and shoot them in the back of the head one by one. So, anytime I hear that a gang member has been shot in a drive-by, or shot by the police, I look at it like it's no big deal... just another lowlife scumbag off our streets forever.
DUMB L0PS..!
THESE F00S AINT NUTHIN BUT FAKE WANA BEs..W0RST DAN STUDI0 GANGSTERS!HAHAHA.JUZ B0MB THEIR FREAKIN H00D!WTF R WE D0IN IN IRAQ WEN WE HAÚE DA REAL ENEMY AT H0ME!SUR 13 WILL NEÚER DIE!
there the best gang ever
there the best gang ever will be
Worry about bloods and scraps?
You sound like a dog.
Jerry Dyer should just give an order to shoot all gangbangers dead.
End of problem.
mutts
those foos are fake
fake gang bangers
The only reason fresno state won't change its logo is because they would lose money switching the logo and none of the gangbangers will buy the new logo because its not a bulldog so really the school uses excusses just to keep making money...
just let them be is all i
just let them be is all i have to say about that right know you should be worring about the bloods that r comin in and the scraps
good points
you present a lot of good points, and i think fresno/clovis unifieds have tried some of the same solutions as back east (outlawing non-specific school hats, team logos, colors, etc.) and, i think fusd has uniforms through elementary school.
when i was in h.s., one of my teachers said essentially that he wanted kids to be wear whatever gangster type stuff so he knew who was involved. didn't want them camoflouged. of course, even with uniforms, people find ways to identify & differentiate (that's the beauty of socialization). this group will wear their belts differently. this group will lace their shoes in a distinct manner. (interesting side story, i almost got beat up @ a local metal show in h.s., my shoe laces apparently indicated something i didn't realize or intend, and some guy took real offense.)
as to whether such loyalties and what not are regionally based (hardwired to local psyche), i don't know. i have trouble accepting that, especially considering philly fan. they're about as rabid as raider fan, without all the makeup. or, the fact that high school football is king of pretty much every city in the south. try eating dinner in valdosta, georgia on a friday night. pretty much all businesses are closed for the game. i definately agree with you that it can happen, and on the local level i admit that i prefer tower to any other part of town. i enjoy all of fresno, and visit other parts, but honestly, you'll rarely catch me @ riverpark.
thanks for the comment & dialogue.
(as for the broken link, it was about l.a. struggling to eradicate gangs.)
good post
Erm, the second link doesn't seem to work, but the first link (Bee Article,) works fine..
Re: Regions and Ball Clubs...
It gets better'n that I'm afraid.
Apparently each section of our fair town is divided up into regions that are represented by varying professional ball clubs.
-So there's a reason why neighborhood kids, as well as 'bangers are all wearing certain teams, -has nothing to do with those teams either. ---apparently the color of the hats also plays into it.
The concept of not wearing sports teams to school, a ways back, was a huge problem in east coast cities.
We had a lot of crimes, (kids razoring other kids, etc.) for wearing leather ball club coats...
-and they not only meant different gangs, --but had different meanings too,
--(The mildest thing I remember was wearing 'Hornets,' meant that you were 'Horney.')
There were situations of brutal attack, --and the kids were in some cases only thirteen to fourteen years old.
-In Philly they responded by outlawing any pro ball teams being worn.
(A kid just couldn't wear the stuff to school.)
Here's a bit more intense.
A was talking with a woman in PT one day last spring, and she was explaining that she had kids in her class of elementary school, (a teacher,) -who were ready to stab each other in the third grade. (Their parents were in rival gangs.)
..There are two thoughts that just tend to be buzzing around this post...
1. -I've always been amused at the amount of people who ride motorcycles who want to look like 1%'ers (outlaws,)
--yet go so far out of their way to tell you they're NOT outlaws... (I mean, the Biker Industry is mostly made up of people who want to look exactly like Bike Gang Members, but want nothing to do with the genuine 'biker' lifestyle.)
-The whole biker thing has gone so mainstream, and has become so accepted that scooters, tats, piercing, (etc.) is kind of ho-hum.
-So, 'gang image,' can feather out and actually become big bucks.
2. -One night when my mom was here, we were sitting in a restaurant, she just blurted out. '..I'm amazed at how many people out here do stuff in groups, it's like everywhere you go, it's one group after another in packs, I've never seen so many people who go around together.' (To her it was like finding all these flocks of beautiful birds or something, it was neither bad nor good, just really interesting... then the salads came.)
-This may not be purely a 'California phenom.'
--but it definitely is NOT an East Coast thing.
(People tend to think and do more independantly, and you see mostly individuals in public.)
-There just isn't the degree of 'teaming,' that you find out here.
That has to be considered.
I wonder also, if it really seals the fate of the situation.
-when they banned the ball team jackets and clothing in the towns back east, (No Pro-Teams allowed,) -the kids still found stuff to wear to school, and was taken in stride, people and industry wasn't threatened by this sudden lack of 'team identity,' being allowed.
People, because they were raised more individualistic to begin with, found other ways to come together, and disband, and it was not such a big deal.
(And Philly sports fans are devout to the point of being psychotic.)
I don't think folks who are from here, will ever get it.
This is the land where the Beach Boys penned 'Be True to Your School,' and it was a hit.
Association with a group, (be it a good or a bad one,) seems to be hardwired into the California psyche.
Friends of mine who have come from here, and gone east, either have to have a real independant streak, -or they feel very lonely.
Ganging and Territory seems to be really be an almost required part of being from this area.
I mean, it's not just 'Fresno vs. Modesto' or Merced, (or Clovis,) but it's 'Tower vs. Downtown,' or one part of town vs. another in terms of identity. (-God forbid a person or business moves from one seriously identified area to another that is disliked by the first.)
I don't see it as a good or a bad thing, but it definitely can become majorly either.
-It is a significant design factor to folks out here that I think has to be considered.
This IS a town of gangs.
-Not just the illegal kind, (though there are tons of those,)
It seems like a person has to belong to a group, team, gang, (whatever,) out here to be even considered halfway normal.
There is a great degree of cred given to 'finding out what the group thinks,' about things. (Which can be healthy, -and also can cause a lot of homoginization.)
I don't think Fresno will ever 'drive out' it's gangs, completely, -because to a great extent, -that is how Fresnans identify themselves, -how they are respected, -and how they teach and recognize each other to be.
-I think THAT's the biggest thorn in the craw of the 'BullDog sports' folks It's a major threat to heritage and identity. --as well as financial threat to those who want to capitalize on that identity.
I think, here, there will always have to be 'good gangs,' and 'bad gangs.'
Final thought?
-Most of the schools, esp. smaller and private, -have solved the problem by going with uniforms.
-A LOT of public schools have considered going with this sort of thing too, (Even City of New York,)
-(though they have often spun it with 'this way the kids can't alienate each other (rich vs. poor,) based upon wardrobe, it's based on the gang thing too...
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